Antonia Wesseloh is a fashion model who has worked with some of the most esteemed fashion brands (including Prada, Chanel, Marc Jacobs, Louis Vuitton, and Dior). We first met when Antonia did an internship for her Bachelor's degree in Psychology in our lab.
In this conversation, we talk about Antonia's path in fashion, and I ask Antonia for some advice for taking photos of people.
BJKS Podcast is a podcast about neuroscience, psychology, and anything vaguely related, hosted by Benjamin James Kuper-Smith. New long-form conversations every other third Friday. You can find the podcast on all major podcasting platforms (e.g., Apple/Google Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, etc.) and on YouTube.
Timestamps
0:00:50: Fashion modelling in times of COVID
0:05:40: Antonia's path in modelling (with many digressions on the fashion industry and life as a model)
0:51:34: Tips for photographers from a professional model
Podcast links
Website: https://bjks.buzzsprout.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BjksPodcast
Antonia's links
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/antoniawesseloh/
Ben's links
Website: www.bjks.page/
Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=-nWNfvcAAAAJ
Other
Trustworthy modelling agencies (in Germany): https://www.velma-models.de/agenturen/
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[This is an automated transcript with many errors]
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: [00:00:00] I mean, like I, I'm doing this whole podcast 'cause I want to talk to people about different topics. Yeah. And like every conversation at some point comes to around 'cause someone has something major. Of course.
Antonia Wesseloh: I
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: mean it's kind of so funny.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, I mean the first guess I had was he's supposed to be in the US in March and like it's been postponed like every two months or something.
Antonia Wesseloh: Oh.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Now until the end of the year. But uh, I
Antonia Wesseloh: was planning to go to New York in April and May and I got my new visa in March and then like, no, end of February I got my new visa that I waited for, for like six months or something. And it was approved and then two weeks later it was like, you cannot enter the US and it's Corona.
And I'm like, wow. Great.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So how does that affect the whole, I mean, if you can comment on that, the, the whole model or not like fashion industry in general. 'cause it seems to me the whole, I mean, in a way, like photography I guess is very [00:01:00] distant. Yeah. Um, and runway is also lots of space between people. But, um,
Antonia Wesseloh: nah, not really.
I mean, we all had to find out how we can make this work with, um, the distant distance. Um, so I mean, I, when I go to a shooting, I am in very close contact with the hair and makeup, uh, artist and then with the stylist, because I usually, I put the clothes on, but they always gonna like fix something. So I have like at least two or three people very close to me.
And then,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: okay. Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: The photographer is a little bit further away, or at least behind the camera. But, um, they're usually like. Minimum eight or 10 people on set. So it's not like, I mean, they kind of, um, like right now with Corona, they said okay, only the people that [00:02:00] have to be there are there. So it's a little less right now, but, um, in the beginning, I mean, usually you fly to different countries for work and all the German brands now, uh, were only allowed to book German models or models that were on stay in Germany.
And, um, that changed quite a bit because usually big brands like to also like to book people from abroad to like models from New York or Paris or whatever. They would just fly in for a day to shoot, even though there are plenty of models here. But I
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: was gonna ask why, why is that? Just,
Antonia Wesseloh: I think it's, uh, so.
If a model lives abroad, it also has a, or it puts a different view on the image of the model. If it, if a model lives in New York, you would [00:03:00] assume that it can afford living in New York, that it would work good or pretty well. So it's, it has a better image. Yeah. It's all about image in this industry. So
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: it's not a,
Antonia Wesseloh: so if you work for it for a specific brand, other brands want you, not because of your look, but because you work for them.
You like a big brand. So it's all about image. You have to have like one person who's important that says, oh, this girl, I like this face. I wanna book her. And then everyone else will book you.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But why is so, I mean, I obviously understand, like, I mean, this happens in every industry, right? Yeah. Uh, where people often go after what someone else, people, other people want.
But in this case, the, it seems, I would imagine at least the general public, apart from like very few individual supermodels, have no idea who the people are.
Antonia Wesseloh: Oh. So it's
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: not like the, the people who
Antonia Wesseloh: actually see the, it's just in the industry. I don't know why exactly it is [00:04:00] this way. I, I mean, I think about this all the time because.
My agencies always ask me, okay, do you wanna live in Paris? Do you wanna stay here? You wanna live in New York? Uh, don't go back home. Don't go to Germany. And I always wanted to live where my family and friends are. It was always very important to me. Um, I didn't feel good or happy when I was, um, on stay in one city for a long period of time.
Um, but they always wanted me to stay because it, it shines a different view on me. I don't know.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But so, uh, are you from Hamburg or,
Antonia Wesseloh: uh, around Hamburg? Yeah. Like a smaller city
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: because I mean, at least Hamburg is, you know, like if you are for example, from New York
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Then that makes it easier.
And I guess Hamburg, I dunno. Is Hamburg a city that has any kind of market value in the world fashion industry? Uh, [00:05:00]
Antonia Wesseloh: I mean, yes, it has. Quite good brands and photographers and a few magazines, but it's not like Paris or New York or Milan or London. So those are like the big Yeah, I've never heard
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: of the Hamburg Fashion Week.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, right. Yeah. There is a Berlin Fashion Week, but even Berlin is not so much more important than Hamburg. I mean, maybe a little bit, but
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: yeah. Yeah. I guess you have like the, the, what is it, like three, four big cities?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Like yeah. In Europe and then Yeah, in America and yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So I mean, you mentioned earlier that it's, uh, you need someone to decide this person's really good and then everyone books that person.
So,
Antonia Wesseloh: yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Who decided that you were a
Antonia Wesseloh: good
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: person?
Antonia Wesseloh: I was pretty lucky with, uh. I was very young, I think 15. And then Prada wanted me for their [00:06:00] campaign. And Prada is like, if you do that as a new face, so you're called a new face. If you didn't do anything before, if you just started, um, I mean I did some, I did this gala magazine here in Germany and one or two other smaller things.
And then this, um, option came around. So it's, they ask you if you have time on those specific dates, and that's an they, that's an option they want to have on you. And then you have to give them the option if you have time. And then they decide which model they're gonna book. They put options on like a few models.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Oh, how do they decide? I mean,
Antonia Wesseloh: how do they, they decide?
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. How do they decide which one to go for?
Antonia Wesseloh: Okay. There is a casting director usually that works for a few brands, and they, um, look at all the new faces every [00:07:00] season, and they know all the big models, and then they decide which face they like, and then they would, uh, show those faces to the designer or whatever.
And then they decide, okay, maybe this girl, this girl, this girl. Also, it depends on it, how the campaign should look like, what kind of vision they have. Um, I mean, I don't, um, maybe they see a girl with brown hair or with blonde hair or with black hair or Asian or whatever. So, um, that depends. And then. Yeah, they just, they just go for a few faces and then they decide in the end.
And I was pretty lucky because they decided for me, actually it was super weird because they, I think they booked maybe 20 girls and we were all, we were all flying to New York. [00:08:00] And then, so for
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: one job or for
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, this, this multiple people
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: in the same shoot or,
Antonia Wesseloh: yes, it was like 20 girls for the same job kind of.
We arrived, ev like all of us arrived on the first day and the job for was for like five days. And then, um, it was the first time for me flying to New York actually. And then, um, we got ready, like. Every one of us got hair and makeup and like an outfit. And then the photographer, uh, was a very big photographer, Steven Mazel.
He, uh, looked at us and then they decided which five or six or seven girls they're gonna keep for the next days. Um, so yeah. And then I was lucky.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But do the others, the others who didn't, uh, get picked, do they just have to like fly home again? Yes. At their own [00:09:00] cost?
Antonia Wesseloh: No.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Or do they at least pay the
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: so they pay them
Antonia Wesseloh: for, I think they paid the flights and the travel and the hotel and then I see.
Um, yeah, but still it was very disappointing. Yeah. Because also you didn't know, like I got there and I didn't know that they would decide. Right. Then like not before, because I got booked and I thought, wow. I was like over in the moon excited because I thought, okay, it's, it's me. And
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: then, right. They
Antonia Wesseloh: could have said, oh no, you have to go home.
It's
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: not you.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: yeah. Oh, that sounds so brutal. If you fly to another country and then they look at you go, uh, no, actually not.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. That's how it is. That's what you have to learn, that it's about the look and not about you personally because it's like you make money with your face and your body and people talk about [00:10:00] you like how the way you look or the way your shape is or, yeah.
You have to learn that this is not affecting your like. Person Kind of,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: yeah. Like it's not an, an attack on you as a person. Yeah. It's just, Hmm. So
Antonia Wesseloh: it's just business.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. I mean, can you, so what kind of, I mean, it sounds like a really weird question, but like, what kind of look do you have or like, what kind of things do they want you for?
Can, can you describe that or, um,
Antonia Wesseloh: I think that I'm not the typical, um, classic beauty model, I would say. Like, not a girl where like the, I don't know, it's, uh, I don't know how to describe, uh, I have a cooler look. Maybe a little bit [00:11:00]more boyish, not so girly. I mean, in my personal life, yes. But. When I get booked for jobs, um, they often put me in like more boyish clothes and like reduced makeup and more natural kind of, I dunno.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I just realized I should have probably looked at some of your stuff in preparation. I didn't do this at all.
Antonia Wesseloh: You can do it after. I was like, yeah, I know
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: an Antonio,
Antonia Wesseloh: and then you know what I talk, I'm talking
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: about. Yeah, exactly. I should have probably done this before and um,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah. Yeah. Um, so kind of like that and.
Yeah. And they always taught me that they liked my hairline because it's like, I have this widow. Yeah. Just like little, I think widow. Yeah. I
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: dunno what the name is for it.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Widow Peak, I think.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Is it? Okay.
Antonia Wesseloh: And then,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, it's like a slight bump.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Centrally.
Antonia Wesseloh: No, I have a heart shaped [00:12:00] face.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: A heart shaped, yeah, exactly.
That's what I meant. A heart shaped face. Um, say
Antonia Wesseloh: it in nice words. So what,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: so they just, that, that fit the look or
Antonia Wesseloh: No, that was like, it was unusual. Special. Yeah, it's unusual. And then I have hooded eyes and I don't know, like the shape of my face.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: What's hooded eyes?
Antonia Wesseloh: Um, like you don't see the eyelid. When I look straight.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Oh, that's true. Yeah. I have a, I have like a line. Yeah, right. And you, you don't,
Antonia Wesseloh: I don't.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Oh, that's true. Oh, okay.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. That's also kind of special I guess.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. Yeah. But did you, did you, I mean, so it seems like you, at least the very, the very beginning was very successful in that sense. Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: But
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: how did you, I mean, you said like you have to learn to not take it personally.
How did you deal with that? That's, how easy is that? That's, that's
Antonia Wesseloh: a big topic. I think a [00:13:00] lot of models struggle with that because you start in a very young, with a very young age. Um, so I started when I was 14, or the big success came when I was 15, 16. And then I was flying to New York and I was seeing all those.
Amazing clients. Like, uh, I was walking for Chanel and Prada and Louis Vuitton and every, every brand, you know, not every brand, but a lot of those brands I worked with. And, um, I don't know, in that age, I couldn't really understand what was going on because also I didn't have the business view on this that I have now.
So I just started and I earned this money, and this money was just like a number on a piece of paper, but that was like kind of going into my bank account. But, um, well I didn't really, I didn't have to deal with money like [00:14:00] at that point. And in school versus, yes, I was at school, I was, I was living at home and, um, I didn't know the value of it.
And then also you like the people talk about how you look and what I said, they put me in those, um. Boyish clothes and no makeup and just like hair that, like wet hair. So I didn't feel like the girl or woman I wanted to become. Especially with like 15 when you're in puberty, puberty, puberty, puberty, yeah.
Um, and you want to become a woman or see all the other girls becoming one and then you are just reduced kind of your look and you mean
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: to the like that one look
Antonia Wesseloh: that you Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to like a boyish look. Like I didn't wanna be a boy, I wanted to be a girl. But yeah, that was the look that everyone was [00:15:00] going for.
And then, um, I think I struggled with that. And then also I was alone most of the time. So I think with 17 I started to work a lot and I was traveling a lot. So, uh, I, uh, after the 10th grade, when I graduated the 10th grade, I, um, I was just working and not going to school. Um, and I was working half a year straight until I was like, I, I need to go home.
I cannot, I can't do this. Because I was always a person that liked to be around people and with friends and family, and that was very important to me. So I also, I struggled with like, mental illness because of that, because I was always alone and I was under such a pressure because when I didn't wanna do a job or I wanted to go home, so I had to kind of make myself a [00:16:00] break because in this job you don't have a break, you don't have weekends, you don't have holiday, there's nothing.
Um. And then, like my agencies told me, well, if you, this job is important. If you don't do this, you'll like, your career will, um, like go down. I don't know. Um
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: mm-hmm.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Um, so I kind of have to, had to keep going and, uh, until like a year later I said, no, I wanna go to school again. I wanna do my, um, ature. I want to finish school.
And that's important to me. And also I learned that modeling as a side job is great. I liked, I mean, I kind of liked it. And also I knew that money was important in life, so, and it was, or it is a job where you can earn [00:17:00] a good amount of money very easily and in a very short period of time.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, especially for someone who goes to school, basically.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: right.
Antonia Wesseloh: So ev yeah, I saved everything, of course, for like later, for now. Um, now I'm gonna spend it. No. Yeah, that's why you kept throwing
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: money around.
Antonia Wesseloh: No, but um, yeah, so I decided I had to go back to school and since then I kind of just did it as a side job, but because it was healthier for me and, um, I had more fun with it then.
But yeah. So, and then. I think also you struggle with the, um, with your self confidence, even if like, everyone would probably think, uh, you look good. You're a mo No, you're a model. You look good because I mean, you have to look good because you're a model. And [00:18:00] then you have to have a, a high self-esteem, a high self-confidence because you look good.
I mean,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: clearly,
Antonia Wesseloh: come on, right? Um, but I don't know, like everyone else, you see sides of yourself you don't like. Or if your agency always tells you you are not thin enough or you have to have a certain, uh, size, uh, in your waist, um, and hips, especially hips. Um, so like for high fashion in Paris, for example, you have to have a waist.
Oh, hips under 90 centimeters. It doesn't matter how tall you are or how big your bone structure is, but they just look at this number and that's sometimes pretty hard.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So I have no real, like 90 centimeters to mean much to me. Is that, I dunno, I, I'm assuming it's just very thin then, I guess.
Antonia Wesseloh: [00:19:00] Yeah, I mean it, yeah, it is thin.
Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Okay.
Antonia Wesseloh: I mean, you know me, so it was the way I look. So that's, that's the size. But then you have to keep it all the time. I had it easily when I was 16, but then. When you become older, it usually gets, like, normally gets bigger, but you have to keep your size that you had when you were 16. That's not very healthy and normal.
And then also I have a lot of friends who are just also like a little bit taller than me. Then they usually have a bigger bone structure, but you have to keep those 90 centimeters no matter what. Yeah. For some it's, I mean, I was lucky. I, I was always very thin and I have to work out and I have to eat healthy.
But I have friends who have like a, [00:20:00] I mean, if they would eat healthy and normal, they would probably be a little bit bigger.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Like a healthy body size would be bigger.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Although, I mean like. I mean, sometimes you hear these stories about like fashion models who are like super thin and obviously very, like you always struck me as like a healthy looking person, right?
You're not like, thank you. The kind of person where you look at go like, oh, Jesus.
Antonia Wesseloh: But there are a lot in this industry. When I go to, like last year I tried, uh, doing the fashion week again. So it's, um, fashion shows in, uh, New York, then London, then Milan, and then Paris. And it's one and a half months straight.
So you have, you go there, you have castings, and then, um, you try on clothes if the designer likes you, and then you maybe book a show and then you fly directly to the next city and do the same. And you have like [00:21:00] 10 or 50 castings a day. So you just run from casting to casting. You don't really have time to eat, you don't have time to do anything.
And um, I, I was pretty happy with my. Body right now, because I, um, I like check all the criteria for, um, model size, but I'm, but I'm also healthy and I, um, I don't like, I sometimes I force myself to, to sports, go to the gym or eat healthy. But, um, I also allow myself things like, yeah. And then I went to Paris or New York and I was with all those 200, 300, 500 other models who are skinny as hell.
And I was like, whoa. And then you compare yourself again,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: right?
Antonia Wesseloh: And then you're like, oh, this girl's skinnier. And then [00:22:00] on the other hand you think, well, but it's not healthy. And then, yeah, but maybe she's getting more shows because of that. And then it's like ping pong. Uh, also I think it's a lot of compare, like a lot of comparing because there's so many models.
Sometimes you're at a show casting with literally 300 models waiting for 10 spots in the show, and it's about how your face looks and how your body looks and then, yeah. And if you're not there, another one will take your, your spot easily. Yeah. That's why it was always so important for me to kind of keep going, keep working and not, um, maybe like my agencies didn't want me to go back to school or to study or something because then I'm not a [00:23:00] full-time model and my spot will be taken away by someone else.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Uh, earlier you mentioned like the. The difficulty of kind of being on your own all the time when traveling around is, I'm curious, is there kind of a, I mean, do you like make friends in the model of fashion industry that you see frequently or is it really like you are kind of completely on your own in a foreign city all the
Antonia Wesseloh: time?
No, I mean, you, um, if you do, especially when you do like fashion shows, you see the same girls again and again, like at least every half year. Or you go on stay together somewhere, so that means you live in a city for like two, three months or something, and then you make some friends there. You have a great time, but then you leave again, and then that's over.
I mean, you sometimes see each other again and then have like this, it's not a very deep friendship, I would say, and that's what I was missing. But I [00:24:00] made some great. Friends through modeling that I still have that live here or live in different cities in Germany, whatever. And I, I am in contact with the whole time.
So I made really good friends through modeling because they know what you're going through. They know what you think and how to handle certain situations.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, yeah. That they don't ask you all the questions I would ask you and go like, ah, so that's the problem. They just know what the problem is.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Especially when it's like when you have problems with your body and all your other friends would be like, oh man, come on, you're skinny. What do you like? What kind of problem do you have? And then they understand.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So like since you've been like 18 or what you've been doing it part-time or?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, I mean kind almost all my.
All my career. I've done it part-time because I was in school. Then I did it full-time for [00:25:00] half a year or almost a year. Then I did school again. Then I did it full-time for a year. Then I started a trainee thing. Then I did it halftime half a year for no full-time, for half a year, and then I started studying.
I always tried again to do it full-time. After a few months, I was like, ah, no, not for me. I wanted to try it again. Now after the Bachelor, but then Corona. Yeah, Corona.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. But so I mean, you mentioned that. You know that now in Corona, you can't fly in models from New York or wherever. Uh, does that make it easier as a German based model because all the German companies have, or is it just the same thing, just different people you're competing with?
Antonia Wesseloh: That's what I was thinking about when Corona happened. Like how will it be, will it be easier to get certain [00:26:00] jobs here in Germany? Um, I think, I mean that a lot of German models also lived abroad and they came back now, so it's, they, they don't fly models in anymore, but now they have a lot of other models here.
So that's a competition again, you know? Um, but since a few weeks or even one and a half months or something, they, uh, I also had a job in Denmark again, and they start to fly models from London or Paris or fly German models to London, Paris, or Milan or something. Again, not New York, but it's starting again.
I mean, there, there were a lot of maybe one and a half months, like, um, uh, beginning of May or something. They started to [00:27:00] produce a lot again here in Germany.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I think I'd like to go back to the, um, uh, just like how you started out.
Antonia Wesseloh: Mm-hmm.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, I mean, so you, you. Was that something you wanted to do or were you, did, did someone come up to you and say
Antonia Wesseloh: the usual way, uh, is that you get scouted on the street doing something, like going shopping or whatever. That's the usual story you hear, but, uh, I actually sent pictures to the agency, so I was proactive.
I was like, thank me. Oh, they just wanna, yes. We'll, uh, I don't know. I, um, back then, what I really wanted to do was acting actually. So I was also, um, I, I went to a casting for a kids movie back then. [00:28:00] Uh, they didn't take me, but whatever. And then, um, I was 14 and then one night I was like, wait, now I can apply for modeling agencies.
I'm 14. That was the time, and I just did it. I don't know why it was like late evening. I just sent some pictures that I, um, I, I was, um, I was put my camera somewhere and did like those pictures that are like, like, I don't know how you, how do you call it, but it's like three, two, one and then,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: right. Uh, the, uh,
Antonia Wesseloh: the
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: zip
Antonia Wesseloh: something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: yeah. Whatever the English was.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. You know what I mean? Uh, so I, I had like pictures from that and then I just sent it to them to like five agencies in Hamburg. Actually. There's a website, it's called, I think, and they have all the trusted agencies here because there are also a lot of [00:29:00] agencies who just want money from you and they're not very, I.
High quality agencies. So I sent the pictures and then one agency came back to me. The others, I didn't hear anything from them. Um, and they invited me. And then, um, a few months later I signed the contract, I think, and then a year later the Prada thing came around.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, was that really the kind of, um, how should we say?
Antonia Wesseloh: I didn't think about that before, like ever working for Prada or Louis Vuitton or whatever. It was like, not in my mind at all.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So, so like more like happened by accident rather than you going, yeah, I want to be that person in the magazine.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, did you have any like, particular expectations of what it would be like to do these kind of jobs or [00:30:00] was
Antonia Wesseloh: it Not really. No. I don't really remember because I didn't really plan to do it. Or like you said, I wasn't like, oh, I wanna be there, I wanna do this. I just kind of started and then that it happened, and then I was lucky in that position.
And then, I don't know, the crazy ride started. Yeah, I don't think that you would, I, I mean, I didn't think about traveling the world with 15, I remember I was sitting in a car with my mom and it was around that time where I was, I applied to the agency, I saw them and, but I didn't get a contract yet. And we passed the airport in Hamburg and I was like, oh, I can't wait to fly again.
And then like. Five years later, I was like, oh, [00:31:00] no flights anymore, please.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Is, so what kind of is your, how should we say, not career plan, but like, I mean, you finished your bachelor's, you, you started your masters.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, is the goal then, or is your, do you kind of plan on just on doing the modeling, like as a side thing to earn some money while you're studying?
Antonia Wesseloh: I think,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: or is,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah.
The, I think I will always model like as long as I can, even if I focus on another career or another job. Um, because it is the best side job you can have. It's like you get to travel, you get to see, I, I saw amazing cities and places all over the world that I would've never seen. If I, if, if it wouldn't be, wouldn't have been fun from modeling.[00:32:00]
Um, and I think, I mean, for women, there comes a time when you get too old to be model. I mean, it depends on your look, obviously, if you like what you look like when you get older. Um, there are some clients that, like, for example, like a catalog I can't really do right now because I look too young, but maybe at some point I could, I can do it.
So I think that I, there will never be a day when I say I quit, I just let it go. I let it flow and see what happens. And right now I want to a, actually, I want to focus more on it a little bit right now and like keep it going and, um. Because right now I'm really happy with the job. I like to travel. I am, uh, [00:33:00] I don't know.
I have new energy to do it, and I see, see it more like as a business, as a job to earn my money. And I, in the beginning I always saw it as my identity kind of, and my life, and I couldn't separate it. And right now, since I have a new thing that I focus on, it's easier to, to look at it like it's my job. And I en right now, I enjoy it.
And a few years back I didn't enjoy it. So I'm pretty happy right now and I wanna focus a little bit more on it. That's why I wanted to work and travel before I start my master. But well now, now we just do it both at the same time. And, um. Yeah. So I am doing my master now. It's uh, one semester I have done already, and then it's three more [00:34:00] and then at some point there's this, um, I also don't know the English word, the trainee thing you have to do for three to five years to become a therapist.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Uh, right. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I didn't speak English
Antonia Wesseloh: trainership. I dunno.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: No, I guess you do. Uh, I, well I dunno what the
Antonia Wesseloh: like practical training,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: an apprenticeship pro or something like that. Yeah, yeah. I dunno. I mean, yeah. Okay.
Antonia Wesseloh: So,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: so you want to go the clinical route or?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes. Yes. I think I. Kind of, I mean, I didn't, I didn't decide for like one, 100%, but I'm, I was very happy when I worked at the, um, kids clinic after I was in the uk.
UK and, um, I can see myself being, uh, um, like psychologist for [00:35:00] children. I dunno what the, the term is for that. Um,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I think it's child psychologist.
Antonia Wesseloh: I dunno. Yeah, something like that. Child and teenage psychologist, something like that. Um, but I haven't planned that for sure right now. I will do this apprenticeship at one time, but probably not right after the master.
And the good thing is that I always have a job so I don't have to worry what comes after the master. How am I gonna earn my money? Because that's very lucky position that I'm in, that I always have something I can do. And
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, is that something that, that's actually one thing I was wondering just about is like, is it something that you, you know, you can't always get a job or is it, I dunno, whatever, like the, you know, the look changes and then your look isn't wanted anymore.
And then that's like, well,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah, it sometimes, [00:36:00] um, you struggle, like sometimes you have a few jobs a month and then the next two months you have no job. So you never know. I mean, you're a freelancer, you never know when the next job is. Um, especially with Corona, we will all very worried, um. But then it was better than expected kind of for some, for some not.
Um, right now, I, I am very positive that the next years I will always kind of have a job, but you never know for sure.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, I guess that also makes it easy if it's not your full-time thing, right. That you
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um,
Antonia Wesseloh: that's, yeah. I mean, I'm looking forward to a job where I have a monthly income that's the same and I know what's coming.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes. It's, it's nice. I mean, right now it's always like, okay, I don't know how much I will earn at the end of the year, and now I am also paying for my [00:37:00] university and then, um, for my, my apartment and everything. And then I'm always like, okay, no, I wanna keep my money, save my money, because I don't know in the end how long.
Um, yeah. I can like. I can pay my life from this. I don't know.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, what kind of, I mean, this may sound like a slightly stupid question, but what kind of jobs are there? I mean, is it like just the, the, the things that everyone knows about, like photo shoots and runway or
Antonia Wesseloh: it's photo shoots and runway, and then you have different kinds of photo shoots.
So you can do like a campaign that's like hanging everywhere and it comes twice a year. You mean like, like big
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: advertise
Antonia Wesseloh: advertisements or something? Yeah, like advertisement. Yes. Um, it's, uh, twice a year for, for a brand usually. So in summer and a winter, and then [00:38:00] beauty campaigns. So this advertisement for, for makeup brands or perfume, they pay the most.
So that's pretty. Pretty rare, but that's what everyone wants. Um,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: have you had that
Antonia Wesseloh: one? Okay. Because also they usually, for something like that, they pay you a day rate that you get for the day you work for them, and then you get buyouts. So the rides on the pictures. So if they want my want to use my pictures for a year, they have to pay for it.
And if they wanna use it for another year, they pay for it again. So after a year you get money again for doing nothing, but for them to have the rights to publish them the pictures.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But that's not the
Antonia Wesseloh: same
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: for a campaign? No,
Antonia Wesseloh: sometimes, but usually no. Um, with, with makeup or perfume, it usually lasts longer.[00:39:00]
So sometimes you see a perfume ad for the same, for years, but yeah. Yeah. Since the season is always changing and the brand has different clothing for every summer season, they have to do a new campaign. And then you have, when you go online shopping, you have the product pictures on the website, and then a model wearing it, and that's called e-com.
It's e-commerce. Um, that's another one. Or if you have like a banner on the website, that's another one. And it all, all those jobs have different day rates, like, so it depends on, um, what your image is, what you usually earn, and then also on what kind of job it is and what kind of rights they have on the pictures for how long, if they put it on billboards, if they just put it online.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Have you been on a big billboard?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes. Okay.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I wasn't around [00:40:00] times. Did you see yourself on a billboard, like walking by and go like, wait a minute, that's me.
Antonia Wesseloh: Or, um, like, yes. I, I was, I was hanging in an h and m once and then I was going into the edge and I was like, oh, that's me. But obviously no one recognized and, um, yes, a few times, but it's always very, it's very weird.
Or like this perfume thing was, uh, on tv. Like this ad was on TV that was also weird. So Yeah. It's un yeah. It's just, yeah, you never get used to it, I think.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. It must be, I'd imagine it's must be particularly weird if it's like a huge billboard and you see yourself Yeah. In like. Five times normal size or something.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And then there are, um, shootings that are called editorials and they're in [00:41:00] magazines. So the, when you open up like a women's magazine usually, and then you have like a photo story there of like eight pictures. Oh,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: that's okay. Yeah, yeah,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Like not the
Antonia Wesseloh: ads
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: in the thing, but the
Antonia Wesseloh: No, no, no, but yeah, yeah.
Right in like an L or in style or gala or Vogue or whatever. And then you can have the cover of the magazine. That's pretty good. But you don't need that. You don't just go and say, Hey, can
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I have the cover? This one? That
Antonia Wesseloh: would be great. Yeah. And then. If a designer has a new collection for the season, they also do a lookbook, and that's like a picture of every look of this new collection.
So sometimes like 40 or 50 outfits that they like send to [00:42:00] clients or post online or something. And then there's something called, um, web editorial, I think. So it's this photo, uh, session that's usually in magazines, but they just put it online on their website. That's like more common right now because like everything is online now.
Nowadays
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: people don't buy magazines anymore. Nowadays. Yeah,
Antonia Wesseloh: nowadays, yeah. Very sad, but yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Actually has, have you Yeah. Noticed kind of differences in, wait, how many years did you start ago?
Antonia Wesseloh: 10,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: 10 years ago. So that was, what year is it now? To the, so that was 2010. Okay. Um, yeah, I Were you still there then before social?
Yeah. You were there before. Social media wasn't a big thing,
Antonia Wesseloh: right? Yes, yes. So
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: did
Antonia Wesseloh: that, so there was no Instagram and I was very happy about, um, so the, we had [00:43:00] Facebook, I think. Yeah. And then we had like this Facebook sites where you can like, and uh, then at some point there was Instagram and my agencies were pushing for me to get Instagram, but it was like, um, an American thing in the beginning and then it kind of came to Europe and Germany and we, I don't know.
I think my highest career point was before Instagram. But I have friends who, who started like a few years after me and had like a great career with like amazing brands, and then Instagram was happening and they got so many follow followers. Um, and right now also, like a few years ago, they started to incorporate Instagram followers in the castings for jobs.
So they would ask you how many followers you have, or they would say, uh, this [00:44:00] casting, you can only attend this casting if you, if you have more than 20 K or 50 K or something. Because it's free advertising for them if you have a lot of followers.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But do, it's
Antonia Wesseloh: like a plus.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But would you actually po Like, are you then also obliged to say like, Hey, I'm doing this.
I don't know, runway
Antonia Wesseloh: show with this campaign or if they, if they look for a lot of followers, probably I don't have that many followers, so I never had a job like that where they would tell me, you have to post this and that, but that happens. Yeah. For me it's usually that you are not allowed to post anything because they don't want the people to see what kind of clothes they're doing or what kind of models they have for their new campaign or shoot or whatever.
Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So, so you are doing the ones for people with few Instagram photos, but you won't good at their job.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But are there also, I'm, I'm curious whether there are [00:45:00] also like fewer jobs because stuff is being kind of, I don't know, like if you, I don't know, like if you Not
Antonia Wesseloh: really, I think.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. So it's, it's not, they're not, you know, like let's say like something like Nike or something like a, a brand that's, uh, not or couture or something, but that's, uh, I could imagine that for example, that they might just pay lots of influencers and say like, well, we don't really need whatever else.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. I mean they, um, the marketing section of a brand I think is refocusing on how do they want their, yeah, their marketing to look like if they want to do a campaign with models, if they want to do a campaign with influences where you know the name of the people you see on the picture.
Because me, they book me for my face and my look and they book different, they book influencers for their. Reach and their name and that people know the person. [00:46:00] So there's a, of course, a difference if they book a model, like a no name model kind of for the average people or if they book a big singer or a movie star actress or whatever.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: And that's kind of the same. So they influences, they book for the people and me. They would book for the face, kind of not because people know who I am.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Very sad. No.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Well, thing they hire you because, not because you're famous, but because you're good. Right. Isn't that, yeah. Right. Could you phrase it that way?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I'm curious, is there, um, I mean, so like in most professions it seem, to me it's fairly clear how you get better at your job. Um,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah, that's the point with modeling.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. So how do you, like, do you train for that? Like how to,
Antonia Wesseloh: I mean, you can, you can train how to walk and you can train [00:47:00] how to act in front of the camera.
I kind of learned it on the go. I would say I didn't really train for it. Um, I mean, I kind of trained walking when I was watching Germany's sex top model when I was young, but wouldn't count that. But, um, you can, but it's not like a job where you work a lot on the specific topic and then, you know, he will get a reward for it.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Because you always have to be lucky you, there always has to be someone in the right moment who sees you and says, yes, I wanna book her. And that could, it could be the same person, the same model. Not happening today, but maybe tomorrow, I don't know. But something very unpredictable. And that's also, I mean, when I started studying again and I got, got good grades for the work I put [00:48:00] into, I was the happiest person.
Because you finally get a reward for your hard work. Kind of. Yeah. Not kind of, you get it.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: And that, and not for the way you look or something, but for the way, for the things you say or think and
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Well, the things you can control, right?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: The effort you put into it and,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Hmm. Yeah. That does sound super.
I mean, every, you know, every profession has luck involved of course, or every, everything in life. Um, yeah. Even, you know, your grades in, in a university or whatever. Yeah. But it, it does sound like the modeling thing is just like you turn up and hope that someone likes whatever look you have out.
Antonia Wesseloh: I mean, there are a few really hardworking models and they never make it, and it's very sad because they do so much for it.
They, [00:49:00] I don't know, they move away from home and they work a lot and then they work for, not for like a pretty decent rate. And there are just a few who really get the good jobs and the, the, I don't know, they really make a career. So I was very lucky. Of course.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Yeah. But I, I can see why you would be happier doing that part-time rather than full-time.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. I mean, for some people I think it's great if you love doing, if, if you love traveling, being on your own or you find someone who's traveling with you, like if you have a boyfriend or a partner who's doing the same or whatever, that's great. And then you can, you can really enjoy it. Um, for, it was just not really for me, but it's also good that I learned that and, and those young, young years, I [00:50:00] learned a lot about myself that I wouldn't have learned if I wouldn't have started doing it.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. If you'd just like gone to
Antonia Wesseloh: school like
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: everyone else.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Sometimes I think about what kind of person would be if I just never started it, never sent those pictures. And just stayed at home. Who,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: who would you be if you hadn't done that?
Antonia Wesseloh: I would probably still live at home.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: You mean like at home with your parents or,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I would be so scared if like, I'm a really, um, I'm scared. No, how do you say that? Not from a lot of things, but of a lot of things. I'm scared of a lot of things already, but I also already did a lot of things that I thought I would be scared of, but then I probably wouldn't have done anything. So. [00:51:00]
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So in a way, modeling was your way to build up some self-confidence despite Yeah, despite everything,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Kind
Antonia Wesseloh: of.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: That was unexpected. Like, I need an industry that like doesn't care about you as a person. That's hugely driven by luck. And then that's how you build confidence.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yay. That's not a nice conclusion of this talk. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I I'm sure there are other ways to build confidence. Other, other options are available.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Another thing I'm curious about is that, so I mean, you've done a lot of, uh, like photography work, right? As in
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Like photo shoots. What, so I mean, uh, I occasionally as a hobby, take photos and sometimes of people, I'm curious like from a professional perspective, like what's something that really.
Like from the models or from the person's perspective, who's being photographed? Like, what's something that you should or [00:52:00] shouldn't do as a photographer? Um, I mean like, like one example I've noticed is that like giving clear directions was something that I didn't do in the beginning, and then that really confused people also because they were not professional.
So there was like, what am I supposed to do? And that's one thing that I really noticed. But I'm curious, like,
Antonia Wesseloh: because you see the picture, you see the person in front of the camera and the background and how it's all coming together and you see what kind of movement or pose is looking good right now? I don't see that.
I mean, I, I have the feeling, I mean, I, as a professional person in front of the camera have kind of the feeling where, where we're going and what I, I am, what I can do, what kind of looks good. But then also, is it better if I turn my head to the right or the left? You have to tell me. Or it's always good to give, uh, positive feedback.
Yeah. This is looking good. Yeah, that's great. [00:53:00] Yeah. Put your head a little bit more up or down or a little bit more to the right or whatever, something like that. Or move with your hands or something like that. So, and also it helps if you have kind of a picture in your mind, not a specific one that you want to recreate, because that never works.
Yeah. Really because it's a different person, it's a different background, but that you have kind of something visualized that you wanna do, or, yeah. Also, if you look, if you put a person in front of a specific background, you probably have something in your mind and. So, and you have something in your mind, not the person that's in front of the camera.
So you have to tell the person what you want and then maybe sometimes show the picture so they know what it's looking [00:54:00] like, what it looks like.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. So I mean just, yeah, to give the person a very clear idea of what yeah, the photo are supposed to be like, um,
Antonia Wesseloh: and good feedback, like positive feedback. So you person feedback feel good?
No, but it makes you feel good. Even if you say, oh yeah, it looks good. Once, say it often. I don't know, maybe it's weird at the beginning, but I feel, I always feel like that gives you like motivation and like a, I dunno,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I guess it gives you kind of direction, right? Like, um, if you just know what not to
Antonia Wesseloh: do and confidence.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah,
Antonia Wesseloh: it's always weird to stand in front of a camera, especially for someone who's not used to it.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So yeah, no, yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean that, I think that's very person specific. I heard some people have no problem at all, even in a crowded area. And some people,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I
Antonia Wesseloh: had like, I had a job recently and it was a photographer.
He's usually [00:55:00] doing portrays of like persons, like real persons and not models. So it was for like a jewelry campaign, so it was also sometimes very close. And then he did like a, so a portray picture of my face and he was, they wanted to photograph me as a person and not me as a model. And that was something I've never done before.
Because usually when you put a camera in front of my face, I switch into my work boat kind of. Me, my spirit is not there anymore. Kind of, I don't know. I zoom off, I know what to do and I hear you, but it's just not me personally anymore. And that was very interesting because I did the slightest movement with my hat and that was too much.
It was [00:56:00] super weird, but super cool to like photograph the real person.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Did you get to see the photo or
Antonia Wesseloh: photos? Um, yeah, I think just like a first look on it. It's not really published yet, but yeah, I saw it on the computer like right after we took them.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Did you feel it kind of represented you, whatever that means, or,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah.
I mean it was, it was just nice to su to like do something totally unexpected and totally new and. Kind of very rare. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Being yourself.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. I mean, it's so weird,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: but is it, I mean, you must like, well, not you must, but I'm assuming you take photos in your private life or whatever, right?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. So was it that
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: different
Antonia Wesseloh: from that or That's another thing.
Yeah. If my, if I ask my, if I ask Robert to take pictures of me, I usually feel so un, I don't know, [00:57:00] not relaxed. I'm like, okay, do it quick. And I always like laugh because it's also, it's him probably, it's not, that's not like professional then. And then I feel uncomfortable. I don't know. It's weird.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Just so if you, so for the listeners, uh, Robert, uh, and got my
Antonia Wesseloh: husband
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Married what, a month ago. Just to that perspective, the feeling uncomfortable is not that it's a random person. Um. Yeah. That is not expected. That, that you wouldn't, um, yeah, I mean the, the, you'd imagine that you would just be like, sure, and then you'd take like the perfect photo, whatever, but it's,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah. No, because also, um, yeah, it's the separation of, of your wor your job and then your personal life.
And I want him to like me, I want him to think that I look good and, um, when I'm at a job, I know they book [00:58:00] me because they like my face. So, and then it's like
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: achieving a look rather than,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah. Yeah. And also at a job, it's not about me liking the way I look, it's about them creating the vision they had.
And for that they booked me. So it must fit
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: right. Oh, so is that then, I mean, you said earlier that the, you know, it's not about you as a person in the fashion industry, but if it's you privately it is about you.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: So then,
Antonia Wesseloh: and that's, that's about the self-confidence there, that's lacking a little bit,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: but it is vastly improved through your modeling experience.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. Any, anything else other than clearly communicating what I want to do and giving positive feedback or
Antonia Wesseloh: nothing I would have in my mind right now?
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, I think, yeah, those are two things that are, [00:59:00] uh, I
Antonia Wesseloh: think that's the most important thing.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Um,
Antonia Wesseloh: especially when the person, uh, is not used to being in front of the camera.
Yeah. And I always like snapshots, like not very posy, but like. Moving around and then you just take some pictures and I think that's more nicer, but, or more beautiful. But that's something you have to figure out as a photographer, what kind of pictures you'd like to take.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: And so one thing I've, I mean, it's kind of weird me talking about photography because in a way I haven't taken a photo in a year now.
I used to do it like quite a lot for a few years. Yeah. And basically since I've been in handbook, I just haven't done it at all. Um, apart from like two, three times when I went out and did a quota. Uh, but one thing I have been kind of thinking about is that, um, you know, so if, if I want to take photos of people right then, so I've just asked [01:00:00] people a know and they are always, um, amateurs and they, um, you know, are just not used to the situation and.
Usually like it takes like 20 minutes for them to then kind of forget they're taking photos. Mm-hmm. And I think I'm kind of getting good at that. Um, but I have thought like, well, it would be cool if I were to take photos with someone who actually knows like what they're doing. Yeah. Who is more comfortable?
Is there
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But I'm not a professional photographer. Right. I think I have, I'm somewhat good. Um, yeah. But is there like a way to, I was curious, like, do you know of a way that you can Yeah. Take photos of people know what they're doing without like Yeah. I don't have like money to pay. Right. This is just a hobby.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. So there sometimes when you have new faces, so new models, they need pictures for their books because then the pictures get sent to clients and um, yeah. So they have to fill up their book with different kind of pictures. So if you have some. That [01:01:00] you should start with people, you know, but if you have like a selection of pictures you took, you can send them to an agency and say that you would do test shoots with models.
So you have pictures and they have pictures. That's what, uh, you sometimes do in between like a free production where, um, also I come together with a photographer I know, and then a stylist and a hair and makeup artist, and no one gets paid. We just all have an idea what we want to create, and then we do a photo story and then we send that to a magazine.
Or there are websites online where you can, I think that's what the photographer knows. So I don't really know how, how it works, but there are sites where you put up the story and then magazines can buy the story. Um, so. Sometimes there are shoots happening without being paid or [01:02:00] something. But, uh, especially for you when you start and you need pictures also to promote yourself again, um, you send some that you already have to agencies and then the models also need pictures, can like, take pictures with you.
So you both benefit from that.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But does that have to be with a stylist or something or is that
Antonia Wesseloh: No, not always. Like in the beginning, I, uh, I was bringing my own clothes and then you just say, uh, where you wanna take the pictures and what kind of clothes they, maybe they should maybe bring or you just say, yeah, pick a nice outfit where you feel comfortable in or something.
Maybe you should have like three, four outfits so you can take different. Pictures.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. I mean, what I usually do at the moment,
Antonia Wesseloh: that's something
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: the moment is that, you know, we just go to the person's place and then just see like what looks good in black and white.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Well, maybe not if, if it's like a [01:03:00] young person, I don't know.
That's maybe a bit different Yeah. Than with friends, but,
Antonia Wesseloh: but like I did one in the half in city in Hamburg or, um, you go, I don't know, on the, uh, at the al store in the nature, or you go in the city and then you could take closer pictures, wider pictures, whatever, or have different ones. I think they nice places you can take pictures.
Yeah. I mean,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Hamburg has, I think Hamburg's pretty cool because it has such a variety. Yeah. I mean you even have like the, and then you have like industrial stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I think Hamburg is pretty good for. Yeah. Just doing different kinds of things. Yeah. Um, yeah, that sounds pretty cool. I mean, like, for, for me, the whole thing is that, like, it's a hobby, so I don't want to like, you know, have to like, spend time, like scheduling time with people and blah, blah, blah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, but that sounds pretty uncomplicated then.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. I mean, you have to schedule time for that, [01:04:00] but
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, of course there's some, but like, you know, it's, it's scheduling time with one person, it's something else. And scheduling time with four people.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, yeah. So what was the, what was the, the, you said there's a website with trusted agencies?
Antonia Wesseloh: It's Vema, I think. Fau, E-L-M-A-V four.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: Good.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I, I, yeah, I understand what you mean by fo
Antonia Wesseloh: Wait, I'm gonna check. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's the right one. It
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: pun or?
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Does that stand for anything or just someone's name, Vema or?
Antonia Wesseloh: No, it stands for something, but it's German.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I see.
Antonia Wesseloh: I can read it out, but it's German.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. No, it's fine. Uh, yeah,
24. Okay. Thank you.
Antonia Wesseloh: And then you scroll down and then you have like all the agencies there. [01:05:00]
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: A lot of agencies in our, is that, uh, there are a lot specifically Farm book or, I mean, I, are these just very small agencies or
Antonia Wesseloh: No, I think it's Germany.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Uh, I see.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, it's Germany, Munich models.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay.
Antonia Wesseloh: It's there.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: That makes sense.
Antonia Wesseloh: Hmm. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Cool. Then may, I mean, if I, like, as I said, I don't think I've taken a vote in like half a year now.
Antonia Wesseloh: Maybe you should start again before you do that.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, yeah. I mean that, although I have found kind of that, um, uh, I have taken like fairly long breaks in between and. I'm surprised at how easy I find it to get back into it.
Uh, yeah. But yeah, I should definitely, although then again, I've also noticed like, just taking, I mean, sorry. At first I only took photos of like streets and, you know, whatever. Yeah,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, it's such a different thing than taking a photo of a person. It's,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: totally. It's, it's a completely different thing.
I mean, there are like [01:06:00] parallels, but Yeah. Very few. Um,
Antonia Wesseloh: no, but, but you focus on totally different things if you wanna make a street look good or like a piece or Yeah. Just still life.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Well, and also the, just the interaction, right? Yeah. If I take a photo of a road, I might wait for someone to walk through and be at a certain point.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But I don't like go up and say, Hey, could you like, stand right there or something.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: And look like you are, I don't know.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah, and then a person also, you have to like kind of follow the person. Then you have different angles and the picture looks totally different right away. So I don't know.
I think you have to have the eye for it and you have to be like amazed of the pictures you're taking either if it's like, um, architecture or animals or people or, or interactions or photographing one person. It's also very, very different. [01:07:00] I would say. I'm not a photographer.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Well, but I guess you do have a.
More insight than most people probably, I would imagine. Actually, uh, one question I've been wondering about for the last half an hour, uh, is this such a thing as being photogenic? Do you or is it like just people not getting the right instructions or?
Antonia Wesseloh: No, I think there is a thing like that Yeah. Where you either look better in real life or on pictures.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. Yeah.
Antonia Wesseloh: You know, you can see a person and you're like, wow, so beautiful. And then you take a picture and it just doesn't come through. Yeah. The other way around, whether
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: that's just maybe the person like being just like moving the wrong way or whatever, you know, like, um, that
Antonia Wesseloh: it, that can also happen.
You being photogenic and then. It's just two separate things. Yout know how to move. But, uh, I think, yeah, I would say there is this thing [01:08:00] as being photogenic or not.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I, I find a funny concept because I guess everyone hopes they're not photogenic. So that when you see like that, when you see a photo of yourself, you think, oh yeah, I look better than that.
Right? Like, you kind of want to be photogenic. So the photos you look good, but when you see a photo, you kind of hope you're not almost,
Antonia Wesseloh: yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I got the feedback that, um, I don't know, sometimes I don't really have to do a lot in a picture. So in the beginning, most of my pictures were pretty still, I would say I was just sitting somewhere.
Being boyish. Being boyish and cool and cool. And then I just like moved my face a little bit from left to right, or like different angles and that was it. So I think there is a thing about being photogenic.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. Yeah. I found like in the few things I've done that like [01:09:00] as soon as people start trying to do something with their face, that's almost the end of a good photo.
Yeah. It's just, it just doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Like most of the PE time, I just, I just say like, okay, just like completely relax your face, look that direction. Do
Antonia Wesseloh: nothing.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, exactly. And Okay. I don't, no, just, just do that.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I think I've kind of worked, I have had a, I had a very few points and I think I've covered all of them already.
Antonia Wesseloh: Woo. Yeah.
Shortest episode done.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, exactly. Nothing to talk about in modeling. No, but I mean, it is also like, um, uh, like one thing I always find slightly strange is if I've had parts of a conversation already with someone. Yeah. Like, I remember us, like, I mean, the reason I asked you is because we did talk about this a few times.
Yeah. And it always feels [01:10:00] slightly weird if him now then like bring up those topics again or something. Yeah. Um,
Antonia Wesseloh: no, that's fine.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Oh, it's also so warm in here. Jesus.
Antonia Wesseloh: You don't have air conditioning there?
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Nope. Not an hour. All, Nope. There's no air conditioning here. And the, and we're in the,
Antonia Wesseloh: I remember
we're
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: in a corner office, so the sun shines at our office all day.
Antonia Wesseloh: Yes. I, in summer. Bummer. I remember. And then the.